Has anyone had or heard of Medical grade PMMA also called "New Plastic"? Or of a Doctor by the name of Dr Casavantes in Mexico? He seems like a very straight forward Doctor. I have emailed him 3 times and all 3 times I had a long response answering every question in detail within 24 hours. The PMMA is an injection for girth but also has the benefit of adding a little extra length. He says he and the Medical Lab in Brazil are working towards the FDA registration of the new PMMA, but will be a long process due to the patent (2014) that "Arteplast" has which is FDA approved already. This Casavantes guy is all over the web. He sent me a few before and afters that look impressive. This is a permanent procedure and the cost is very reasonable ($1500). If anyone has any info that would be great. Also has anyone heard back from Dr. Runels and his girth injection?
Here's a couple of links for Dr Casavantes and the medical pmma
Post by Skeptical One on Dec 14, 2010 13:00:43 GMT -5
With IDM's permission I thought I'd share a couple PM exchanges we had. IDM isn't a doctor but has been intensely busy with pre-med schooling so his insight into science can be useful. Here is some things we talked about.
Me (Skeptical One) I was hoping you could shed some light on this technique since I'm sure you get a healthy dose of science/medicine intensive courses every semester.
It seems to follow the same basic principle as all fillers do - inject under the skin for volumetric gain.
Fat is known to be the safest but still possesses the risk of re-absorption. Silicone gel has not been so safe due to migration issues.
Then there is PMMA, which according to the doctors possesses no risk for migration. This is a claim I am still trying to confirm. As we know doctors will bolster their method so I'm not sure how sound their assertions are. According to them, tissue develops around the PMMA securing it into place. Also, they said that silicone gel was a "gel" and that made it riskier for migration and complication. Medical-Grade PMMA is being used often for all sorts of bodily enhancements in South America. If it were in fact "safe" if injected correctly, I'd imagine it would be the ideal alternative to FFT...
what do you think?
Hi PMMA, as you may know is an abbreviation for polymethyl methacrylate. It essentially is plastic, the same material that "plexy glass" is made of...I'll tell you what I know as fact and then my opinion. Yes pmma is "biocompatible", this means it has been found to behave fairly well w/in the body. In dentistry fillings crowns, caps dentures are usually made of this material. It is also used in eye surgery and in orthopedics. Depending on the amount of pmma and what its mixed can create, an artificial tooth, a soft tissue filler, or a high heel shoe! I was told the following by DrCasavantes: This material has been used w/in the body for about 16 years so there isn't much information data available detailing long term affects. If this material is used as a soft tissue volumetric filler it MUST be injected in micro amounts. Using excessive amounts of the product is NOT advisable... the amount must be limited to avoid causing an undesirable foreign body response.
Pmma is encapsulated in a "biosphere", (of collagen and or water) this biosphere will absorb and the pmma will acts as a catalyst for new collagen formation.
There have been instances where pmma has been rejected and has caused major deformities. This could be due to poor/improper administration of the product but the cases exist and everyone should be aware of them. The ONLY way to remove the product if there's a problem is surgically.
I recently e-mailed Dr Casavantes w/questions. He was courteous and answered my questions in a scientific manner. He stated that he's comfortable w/the product and its safety. He believes when used w/care and when administered by an experienced physician The results are good.
Personally I can understand the initial attraction to this permanent filler, however, I don't believe it has been performed long enough to endorse its usage. The fact remains it is an artificial material which could induce an undesirable immune response. Other long term effects (of this application) are not known.
To date I feel the best option is fft when done correctly, retention rates are excellent.
Based upon what I know so far, the platelet rich fibrin matrix MAY be an excellent complimentary procedure to fft (one that I'm considering)...more on that in the next message.
Post by Skeptical One on Dec 14, 2010 13:02:28 GMT -5
Another PM exchange:
Me (Skeptical One)
Your insight is greatly appreciated!
Also, what is your take on the use of PMMA in cosmetic bioplasty? More specifically - why is this method used abroad and not in the states? At first glance it seems kind of suspect when you have to goto Tijuana to get the work done...but on further notice you also see a side of medicine/pharmaceuticals/FDA that isn't so clear cut.
What's your take on the popularity of PMMA in South America and its lack of application in the U.S. ? Is this cause for concern?
Oh, and on another note, Dr. Runels (PRFM Injections) may join our forum for a Q&A session, so keep posted.
"PMMA" is used in the US in certain applications but is NOT FDA approved as a soft tissue filler...if a doctor chose to use injectable pmma or "medical grade" (a deceiving term) silicone, it would be done at his/her own risk and to the risk of the patient b/c this usage would be considered: "off label" usage...meaning not what the material was designed for.
Again, the main problem here is that there is to date, insufficient data on this material, testing/the results of those tests and long term affects are not really known. If one knew the risks or if the risks were certain to be localized to the area being treated, in a worst case scenario, one would have to be prepared for possible surgical removal of material- that would be bad enough- whether pmma could/will cause long term systemic problems or lead to disease remains unknown and for me, that's enough reason to disqualify its use at this time. In science/medicine "unknown" is not a good word.
PMMA used in large volumes, as is often the case for purposes of body sculpting/ "Bioplasty", is potentially very dangerous b/c greater amounts trigger immune response, and if there's a problem that necessitates its removal (imagine large amounts injected in various parts of the body for "sculpting" purposes), you can envision how potentially catastrophic this COULD be.
PMMA is a different material than liquid silicone for sure, but it seems that pmma is being used abroad as a volumetric filler in large volumes, just as silicone once was (in countries like Brazil).
We can learn important lessons here in The States from the successes and failures of science and our medical community, but we can also learn from taking a look at what others have done in the past-places like Brazil eg.
Though The FDA and other regulatory agencies are not perfect we are far better off than some of our friends in other countries. Regulations are not what they are here and for this reason there were so many deformities in the past as a result of liquid silicone injections.
For most people, silicone was thought to be a Godsend b/c it "did the job" and was inexpensive. I believe most problems arise when people think in the SHORT TERM; before jumping into elective procedures we need to carefully consider possible LONG TERM affects. PMMA used similarly to the way silicone was used, is in my opinion, the latest and greatest bad idea.
Post by Skeptical One on Dec 14, 2010 15:38:34 GMT -5
I received an email back from Dr. Casavantes's office regarding the extent the doctor would inject PMMA into the penis.
When I asked about adding a significant amount of PMMA in one session, or even over the course of multiple sessions, their office replied by saying: There is potential to create deformities when adding this amount of product to this area. This should only be considered an enhancement.
I find this to be truly remarkable. A doctor in Tijuana is actually expressing caution about how I go about this procedure?! In the same email they recommended no more than 2 sessions! I'm genuinely pleased and refreshed to see that there are some doctors out there who still behave like real doctors!
I also remember reading Dr. Casavantes's blog where he warned against using PMMA for breast enhancement (when he could damn well profit off it) due to concerns that it would prevent a woman's ability to self-examine for breast cancer.
I tell you what, I'm not endorsing the guy but he's got points with me. I feel like if you are looking for minor enhancements for girth and/or aesthetics to definitely consider. I, however, will most likely not go the PMMA route because of his warnings. Like IDM pointed out, large volumes may trigger an immune response especially in a dynamic "organ" like the penis. I am in need of significant gains so I may have to scratch this one off my list That's too bad, this doctor actually comes off as legit.
Post by envisionmore on Dec 16, 2010 0:30:57 GMT -5
Just read the new posts. It's very interesting what IDM had to say. Thanks for your knowledge as there has been so many questions and few answers.
S.O. I'm glad to hear you received a message from Dr C. I must have asked one too many questions! LOL He does seem to be a very genuine guy though.
I had emailed the guy with the picture blog that was sent in a couple weeks ago. He had PMMA to increase girth 2 years ago in Brazil.
My email to him..... I am interested in the procedure using PMMA to increase the size of my penis. When did you have this procedure and are you completely satisfied? How does the implant feel in daily living as well as when engaged in sexual activities? Is it safe or have you had any problems/complications from the procedure? Any info would be greatly appreciated.
This morning he replied....
The feeling is wonderful, for me the result was spectacular. My social, emotionally, work, self esteem improved significantly. I've done the procedure for some time, 2 years, and today I am impressed with the result. This was the reason I opened the blog, was my pleasure. Sexual relations are simply a sensation. Besides the reaction of women when they see the size they enjoy very much. For me it was a show because I feel much the ends of the vagina, and feeling full. I did the procedure in the city I live in Brasilia-DF, Brazil. I had no problem. I had to do a touch up recently to improve the aesthetics and eventually increasing to 19.5 cm in diameter. Have not put the photo on the blog. I had a relationship after this retouching was a concert at the least for me. The partner complained a bit at first but then was fine. Called me a horse, lol, but already called wanting more. I am very satisfied with the procedure.
It's nice to hear from someone that has actually had the PMMA procedure. He has achieved 19.5 cm which according to my measuring tape is just shy of 8 inches in girth! To me that's huge! I'm just looking to be around 6 inches in girth which would be an increase of 1.5 inches. This definitely sounds achievable with PMMA.
I am very intrigued by the Elist implant as well but have some concerns with the complications. I think in the future this will be the answer but for now it scares me.
Post by Skeptical One on Dec 16, 2010 6:31:04 GMT -5
My ultimate goal (which may or may not be attainable) would be to add 2.5" in circumference to my erect mid-shaft girth. I suspect both PMMA and the Elist implant could achieve this. The only problem is that such girth demand from the implant may induce a sort of "pressure skin necrosis" (if thats what its called) that I've actually read (and seen) happen to a former Elist patient. If the new implant is softer and has reduced its edges, I may be keen to reconsider, but at this moment in time I don't have sufficient reassurances to tread in that direction.
PMMA may allow me to achieve that girth gradually, allowing my skin to stretch with each application over time.
The problem (kind of) is that Dr. Casavantes doesn't recommend going for "Super Cock," and considers his use of PMMA in the penis for "enhancement" purposes. His very concern(s) actually make me feel much more comfortable with him, but I'm hoping that I can convince him to make me an exception - on the grounds that I'm "suffering" from significant under-average stats and wouldn't be seeking an 8" girth. I think it will require a face-to-face consultation with Dr. Casavantes to really know if this all could be a reality. Not sure what will come of it but Mexico is far more realistic for me than Brazil is.
And the PMMA is considerably cheaper than Elist's implant. With the initial procedure plus (a presumed) 3-top offs, it would cost less than half the cost for Elist's implant.
*Note: there is a video on there as well of his penis erect. He looks much larger in the vid than what the pictures would indicate.
- There are pics on there of him using a stretcher post op. From the looks of it, it is an all day stretcher.
- In the erect state his penis looks for the most part fine. In some pictures he looks a little bit "lumpy", but not unnaturally so. The glans to shaft proportion is definitely noticeable given the large increase in shaft girth he has undertaken.
- In the flaccid state his penis resembles mens who have overpumped and they're penises are filled with lymph. It's not necessarily bad looking, but it definitely does not look like like a fully natural penis.
- There are pics that show the injection site. It is at the base. I am wondering how this works. Possibly injection of material slowly at base while the doctor manually massages material throughout penis. I would imagine someone/something would have to be pulling the penis at the glans in a fully stretched state to insure that the material is distributed evenly throughout.
Finally, the most important observation(in my eyes) with respect to Elist's procedure.
- If the 13 cm to 19.5 cm increase is to be believed, then that means over time he has had an increase of 6.5 cm, or roughly just over 2.5" in girth. This implies that the skin can accommodate that drastic of gain in girth, if done slowly and over time so as to allow the penis skin to stretch.
After going through some of the other photo galleries, it seems that each PMMA session 10 ml is injected which on avg yields 1cm of girth increase. As the blogs show, Fred has had his massive increase done in steps over time.
OT rant relating the above information to Elist's procedure.
I think, and I hate to say it, but I feel that what many feel is the big advantage of Elist's procedure is also the big drawback that being the massive instant increase in girth.
It seems a lot of the problems could be traced to the skin of the penis just not being ready for that drastic of increase so suddenly. Skin pressure necrosis is caused by that very thing, stress on the skin. I think the length inhibition is also caused by the skin trying desperately to accommodate the implant and in doing so sacrifices length initially to deal with the implant but unfortunately over time the scar tissue that encapsulates the implant may conform to the loss length.
Fortunately some men have been able to regain their loss length via stretching. To me investigating stretching techniques that work with the implant in the penis will be an important area of progress.
Just quickly giving this some thought, some ways to address those problems with Elist's procedure would be;
1.) Undergoing a pumping regimen for several months prior to having Elists procedure done to help stretch the skin. I would imagine using some sort of skin lotion to help skin pliability and health in conjunction with this regimen would be important to insure the stresses induced by pumping do not undermine the implant. Of course, lotions(or olive oil) is regularly used post op to aid skin pliability and health.
2.) Implementing stretching ASAP and as safely as possibly post op to get and prevent length loss.
3.) Investigating the mechanisms behind whether stitching plays a role in length loss.
4.) Putting a properly fitted implant in. One that isn't too big else the stress on the penis would be too much. Assuming the pumping regimen were successful than a patient could get a larger implant.
5.) This is a weird one, but using a heat pad post op to help heal by helping with skin pliability and circulation of blood to the penis which is important in healing. I have not heard of using a heat pad post op from any of the past Elist patient's, but using heat is quite the norm and considered important in natural PE practices(via thundersplace).
6.) Healthy diet, and stay hydrated! Hydration is key to skin health.
That's all I've got for now. I would appreciate any comments. Also I apologize for the off topic tangent from PMMA but after seeing Fred's pics I couldn't help but see the relation to Elist's procedures and felt they could be shared. I ought to repost the information I wrote about regarding Elist's procedure in an Elist thread.
Post by Skeptical One on Dec 16, 2010 18:52:21 GMT -5
Stormy, I also figured such significant gains could take place if done "over time" allowing the skin to accommodate new sizes gradually... pointing out Fred's gains solidifies what I thought all along. My issue is whether or not I can convince Dr. Casavantes that I"m qualified to take the same route.
I plan to muse more on your posting Stormy, I just wanted to throw in some input while I'm on briefly.
justpitchingin: Anyways.. I have had the Elist procedure.. only 14 weeks post-op.. So far so good.. But be warned the girth is actually something that may not be appreciated as it may be a bit much for folks that are not into girth..
Mar 18, 2017 1:33:43 GMT -5
happy: guys that had Elist surgery recently and are recovering and all is well...I'd like to communicate with guys that had the surgery within the last year so I can gauge my progress
Mar 27, 2017 19:52:32 GMT -5
May 7, 2017 12:41:15 GMT -5
localyokel: looking for source of papaverine without needing RX...
May 7, 2017 12:42:05 GMT -5
naginati: What happenedover atphallobaords 2? It's disabled, someone get in touch with Skeptical one!
Oct 1, 2017 15:45:49 GMT -5
hunkchunk: Hi Skeptical One, I hope this posting reaches you. You're aware that the new forum is down and I thought maybe you could post here if this one will be revived or if another hosting platform is forthcoming. Thanks and see you in the threads ! Hunk Chunk
Oct 4, 2017 1:44:58 GMT -5
naginati: Hunkchunk! I started a reddit group, search for phalloboards. It's a way to communicate at least.
Oct 5, 2017 6:21:45 GMT -5
growing: Why I cannot post any new topics?
Oct 5, 2017 17:19:58 GMT -5
hacid: Why can't I post on this forum??
Oct 11, 2017 12:19:54 GMT -5
sxybst: yes, what the heck happened?
Oct 20, 2017 14:24:22 GMT -5
herbertwest: Hi everyone! I'm also wondering, what's happened with site? Guys, please, write your emails to SO or Hoddle10, we need to return the forum.
P.S. Reklaw, if you read this, please PM me or send me email, you know my email adress.
Oct 23, 2017 13:50:58 GMT -5
sydshow: I emailed the host two weeks ago, no reply! Was hoping it would have come back by now.. anyone?
Oct 23, 2017 16:57:39 GMT -5
Deleted: Uhhh where did this site go?
Nov 10, 2017 15:57:07 GMT -5
champ101: Dr Colin Moore is a butcher, NEVER allow him anywhere near your penis. His work is VERY bad and his fees are far in excess of others who complete these surgeries much better. He could not care less about his patients, his work is VERY bad.
Mar 8, 2018 9:11:56 GMT -5
yvesthibeaultrocher: Hi guys, any of you interested in checking out my magazine, it's a men's health magazine which is completely new, we write about a number of things, including penis enlargement surgery.
Jan 20, 2020 10:24:13 GMT -5