Post by Skeptical One on Jun 26, 2011 12:06:44 GMT -5
Of course none of them have diagnosed an infection solely as a result of PMMA, and I have yet to find someone who has. These revelations dd72 reaffirm my belief that American Doctors taint the PMMA option because it affects their bottom line.
@so yes that dr was pro pmma, on the message boards he even went as far as recommending clinica estitica for buttock injections.He said in his experience complications were extremely rare when it came to BUTTOCK injections. Still all the drs are very short( prob cause they are busy, and simply don't know much about pmma) all they know is that it effects their bussiness negatively. Also they can not use it. I have a post on make me heal asking advice for pmma girth enhancement. The only reply I received was a lash from a dr that states "Don't be stupid or you will ruin your life!" gee doc, thanks alot for the verbal terrorism,
I have a post on make me heal asking advice for pmma girth enhancement. The only reply I received was a lash from a dr that states "Don't be stupid or you will ruin your life!" gee doc, thanks alot for the verbal terrorism,
I find it outright shameful these doctors can make such reckless suggestions and not back them up with sound medical reasoning.
Post by Skeptical One on Jun 26, 2011 16:10:57 GMT -5
(Not intentionally) in defense of these American doctors - I think there can be some concern that there are a lot of untrained or underground injection providers (Mexico, Columbia, Venezuela, etc) who use either poor grade PMMA and/or poor administration of PMMA. Such situations could actually result in the many side effects American doctors speak of, which include but are not limited to inflammation, granulomas, and skin necrosis.
This does not, however, explain why many of them criticize PMMA when done correctly without much elaboration or explanation.
@so I agree with that defense. I know that in the wrong hands ANY material can be dangerous. That being said, I really belive that these drs are lumping PMMA together with silicone. Ive done tons of research and I cant find nearly any reports of infection or migration. I did see some reports on make me heal, real self....but who knows what the truth is on that site. On a side note, ive been pumping for about a week now and have seen considerable gains(temporary ofcourse). The jump from 4.5-4.7 to 5.2-5.5 may not sound like alot but to me it is huge. My goal is 5.5+ mid shaft and 6.0 at the base. My penis while pumped looks much bigger and feels much heavier. Im automatically turned on and my EQ gets much better. I want to see the new site so I can examine the b/a pics from those who have similar starting stats as me. After that I am going to schedule my appt for mid july-early august. I just cant live the way ive been for the past few months. I read how happy everyone is with pmma and fantasize that its me. I dont think my goals are out of control....and I belive i can achive them safely. Thank you SO and gang for creating and adding to this site. You have no idea how much hope it has given myself, and im sure others.(sorry for going on a tangent lol)
...This does not, however, explain why many of them criticize PMMA when done correctly without much elaboration or explanation.
I will have to disagree with you on this point. If you search the internet or talk to plastic surgeons you will find numerous doctors who are opposed to PMMA even in the US where it is approved and used in cosmetic surgeries. You will also find proponents who do use it in their practice and others who are taking a wait and see attitude. The reality is that some doctors are very conservative by training and nature. See these examples www.realself.com/question/pmma-jaw-cheek-chin
Also remember that we really won’t know the long term impact of any of these newer procedures (Alloderm/Belladerm/PMMA) in the penis for 10 to 15 years until enough have been done and tracked for that time period. As you yourself have commented the pre op, procedure, and post op protocol for PMMA penis enhancement is being developed and refined as we speak. We should look at this procedure like breast implants in the early days 30 or more years ago.
Having said all that IMO PMMA has the lowest initial risks and concerns by far of any of the penis enhancement procedures!
I should have been a bit clearer. There are some (doctors) who have ventured to elaborate on their anti-PMMA sentiments, but doing so in a descriptive, meaningful, and scientific way seems to be non-existent. Your link confirms this. While they may have their reservations with the product, they don't seem to offer one bit of information where I can go... "ah, well he raises a good point."
These doctors taking the conservative approach ay? More like willful ignorance! Sure there are risks of granuloma's in the face, but what about the risks of the methods those doctors in particular use? The risks of breast augmentation? Even the risks of temporary fillers that cause problems before they actually dissipate? And many of them on these plastic surgery forums tend to follow up their PMMA scare-campaign with a suggestion that their alternative method is worth looking into, and leave their contact info # 555-555-5555... give me a break.
There is a glaring absence of an actual medical/scientific explanation for there concerns... the kind that analyzes or describes the mechanism by which the PMMA creates complications when administered by the hands of a skilled practitioner using a high quality brand. Whereas when I look up for medical/scientific grounds for why PMMA is effective, I actually learn about what takes place and why.
PMMA is by no means a proven product for the penis, even when the science suggests it has potential. Only time & the pioneers will tell. However, in the meantime I'd like for us to learn as many PROS & CONS as possible so that all future members can make the most sound decision on this matter. But I really can't stand profit-oriented docs who wish to say things like "don't be stupid and ruin your life," as a response to a serious PMMA inquiry. In other words, there is hardly any substance from those who object to PMMA, just concerns only applicable to poor skill and/or poor grade PMMA.
Lets work with the facts, lets point out what could be problematic when everything else is performed correctly. I'm just not seeing that from these docs. dd72s recent correspondences continue to demonstrate and reaffirm the obvious.
While it is my usual precaution to preclude by all means anything artificial in one's body if at all avoidable, I do note that these physicians seem to find it usefully comforting that the greatest measure of safety can be provided by a method which grants them patients for life. They can repeatedly charge at regular intervals the same amount as long as we live and find our needs to not be lastingly met. Apparently they are here to provide continuous health care and not a cure for our ills.
The plasmetic.com links I refer to in my previous post don't work properly. I attach the cache of the most relevant one below:
08-31-2008, 10:13 PM
spy9doc Senior Member
I just returned today from 10 days in Tijuana/San Diego where I had my second round of PMMA injections.
My journey began months ago with exhaustive research, talking with other physicians, researching scientific journals, and talking with other PMMA patients. I ultimately chose Clinic’estetica in Tijuana for my treatment.
Once again, I had PMMA injections in my buttocks, face, and hands on August 20 & 22. I’m happy to report that I had much less post-treatment pain, far less bruising, and am absolutely thrilled with my results! Insofar as PMMA is concerned, being older and having more loose skin can be an advantage because more filler can be injected? Well, I can report that I had 200CC injected into each buttock with Round 2! For those of you who are younger, your skin is much tighter and can hold far less filler. And, it is possible that you may not need a second round.
I am really thrilled with the results in my face and look about ten years younger! CE does what is called a Face Refresh in which they inject filler into wherever you need it. It was injected into the hollows under my eyes, temples, cheekbones, cheeks, around my mouth, in my lips, on my chin, jawline, etc. Dra. Morales even injected some filler in my bony elbows. Now I have some padding! I also had a second round in my hands.
I was initially fearful of the safety of PMMA and was concerned about granuloma formation and possible future consequences. I carefully refrained from saying too much to encourage others to get PMMA, even after my first round of injections. On this visit, I was privileged to learn more and new information about Precise, CE’s proprietary filler, and am even more convinced that it is safer and more effective than the other fillers on the market. I now feel totally comfortable in recommending it to anyone considering permanent filler as a solution. And, I couldn’t have found better care than at CE. Anna Love, the owner/director of Clinic’estetica, has been in this business for over ten years and started the clinic while doing all the injections. Of course, she hasn’t injected for several years, but has taught Dr. Casavantes (formerly at CE), Dr. Garza (Monterey), and Dra. Morales (CE) their injection techniques. Dra. Morales has a very artistic eye and does a beautiful job with her work. Dra. Venegas frequently assists Dra. Morales and also has a keen eye for detail.
I guess that a disclaimer is in order right about now. I receive absolutely NO compensation nor benefit from endorsing Clinic’estetica. I am simply a very satisfied patient who believes that their approach to PMMA injections and their product are absolutely the best…….and am not hesitant about recommending them.
PRICE – It is almost impossible to give you a price for injections. It is SO based on your body structure, your physiology, hormones, and the results that are both desirable AND reasonable for your body. Most of the injectors base a buttock treatment price on about 100-125 CC per buttock. I can tell you that for that amount, the price generally runs about $3500. For someone who is younger, that is about the maximum that can be injected in one session. (A good injector doesn’t overfill the buttocks and stretch the skin with resultant stretch marks). But, what if you are older, tall, and don’t have much to start with? (All of this applies to me) Dra. Morales injected 185CC/buttock on the first round and 200CC/buttock in this second round. You can understand that if they use twice as much product, it will probably raise the cost. Is it worth it? You betcha!
Regarding price, if you are hesitating to have the injections done because you are hoping that the prices will drop, you are wrong. The procedure is only going to get more expensive in the future, especially among the experienced physicians. The price has risen exponentially in the last three years, both in Mexico and in Brazil.
INJECTION TECHNIQUES – There are a couple of doctors who brag about their superior injection techniques because they use only a cannula to do the injections. This is total BS! A true artist will use a combination of injections AND cannula, depending on the area being treated. I too was misinformed.
Dra. Morales uses both techniques. In the first round in my buttocks, she only injected into the soft tissue (fat) and many of you commented about the number of apparent injection sites and the subsequent bruising). Much of the bruising was due to the fact that I take Celebrex on a daily basis. She chose to inject only into the soft tissue because I so desperately needed tissue volume. This time she injected both into the muscle and fat and I had far less bruising, but felt like I had returned to the gym after a month off and had decided to do five sets of 200lb squats! I could barely lift up my leg to get into an SUV for a couple of days! The soreness subsided fairly quickly and now about 9 days post-treatment I am not even using a booty cushion.
PRODUCT – Most of the fillers around at present are made in Brazil. They are not approved for use in Mexico, but physicians use them anyway. Some of them do not have much of a track record and there seems to be something new being made every week. (The exceptions are Metacril and New Plastic which have been around longer). Clinic’estetica has been the target of much criticism because they have refused to make the contents of their product public. Well, I ask you…….if you had a superior product that was poised to enter clinic trials with possible FDA approval, would you make it public? Not me!
As I said earlier, I have been privileged to learn more about their product, and am more convinced than ever that it is far superior to anything else currently being made.
SAFETY – Most of the reputable forms of PMMA are reasonably safe. The basic monomer, methylmethacrylate, has been used as an orthopedic cement for about 30 years, so it is known to be biocompatible with the body. PMMA is a polymer which is suspended in a carrier solution and promotes new tissue formation around the particles. The carrier solution is absorbed and eliminated by the body in 4-6 weeks. Instead of the body walling off the particles by forming a pocket around it as with other fillers, PMMA promotes a type of tissue which is vascularized (blood vessel formation), thus enabling the body’s immune system to treat it just like the rest of the body. A filler containing polyacrylamide and polyakylamide simply walls off the particles where bacteria can form and the immune system can’t reach it. This is one of the problems with hydrogel in current use……..the inert substance in it is generally one of these two compounds, and bacteria can be hidden in those pockets where neither antibiotics nor the immune system can reach it. You can have a reaction to it years later after the infection has lain dormant for some time. The other problem with hydrogel use is that much of it is mixed with silicone. Silicone is an oil and migrates along tissue planes. It may have been injected into your buttocks, but can migrate down to below your hips or even behind the knees, often with resultant necrosis (death) of tissue.
The technique and experience of the injector is of paramount importance to avoid lumps-and-bumps or granuloma formation, especially in the face. Beware of a Tijuana doctor named Carlos Alessandrini who is offering a seemingly “too good to be true” deal on PMMA. This doctor has little experience and is apparently just out of prison after being convicted of healthcare fraud. He is back in practice and seems to be using this “deal” as a way to build his practice. Do you really want him learning how to inject on you? Please, don’t fall for this marketing ploy.
WHERE CAN THE FILLER BE INJECTED? – I have had PMMA injected in my face, lips, hands, elbows, and buttocks. Next on the list is to correct a disfigurement from a shoulder injury and subsequent disastrous surgery. It can be injected into virtually any area of the body that needs soft tissue volume and enhancement. It can be injected into a large area such the entire face, or just in one small area like the lips. You can have your entire butt injected or just treated in small areas.
CAN IT BE INJECTED OVER IMPLANTS? – The answer is a qualified “yes”. If your implants are submuscular, then no problem injecting around them or into the soft tissue (fat) over the muscle. Once again, this is completely an individual situation and would require a personalized consult to determine if you’re an appropriate candidate.
PICTURES – Go to CE’s website and you’ll find instructions as to how to take pics for a consultation. Since I’m a healthcare professional, I won’t be posting my pics for obvious reasons. I will consider sharing pics of my buttocks to those of you who provide me with an email addy. Just understand that I will probably do a mass mailing so if you are sensitive about having a few other people see your email addy, then perhaps you may want to consider that.
Personally, I would not consider implants nor fat grafting. I realize that many of you are totally satisfied with your results from both these procedures and I couldn’t be happier for you. Lest it seem like sour grapes because I didn’t have any fat to graft, I CAN tell you that I would not spend $14K for a fat grafting procedure that may not last. I want to know that I have a permanent solution for my problem. But again, just because my decision was right for me doesn’t mean that it is right for you. As always, I encourage you to research, research, research, and I know that you will make the right decision for yourself.
Thanks for the replies to my earlier message; all good to know!
I just read a good literature review (2009) summarizing all the various penis enlargement techniques. The doctor seems fairly unbiased and open-minded (he mostly comes out against surgery, but with some qualifications). The bibliography is also a great centralized list of the other major studies out there. This doctor is a prominent urologist based close to me, and who has published widely internationally. One interesting thing - he cites a study that says hyaluronic acid for the glans had a 75% satisfaction rate 5 years later! I thought that stuff disappeared after like 6 months? Link to abstract: www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19730379 Link to full article (have to register and scroll down quite a bit): bit.ly/l0rzCt
Anyway, he doesn't talk about PMMA in the article (this was 2009), but I thought I could get in touch with him and get his impressions, as he is clearly following this field closely, and he's a urologist. I'm not quite sure what to ask, as I don't really have a good grasp of the science yet. Maybe the more experienced among you could suggest some questions, and I will consolidate and send to him, and then post response?
Some suggestions to get the ball rolling... 1) Have you heard anything about the injection of PMMA into the penis to enhance penile girth? What are your impressions?
2) PMMA has been used as a facial filler for years (FDA-approved), and is currently used off-label in Mexico and Brazil for penile girth enhancement. Patients on our forum report satisfaction, with the longest time since procedure 3 years. Is there anything about the penis in particular that would discourage the use of PMMA there, when it has been approved for the face (including dynamic areas like the lips)?
3) other ideas....(this may be a good way to really ask someone about granulomas, macrophages, and all these other things that I don't totally get yet )
PS - Is there a way to post attachments here (I would just post the article that way)
Last Edit: Jun 27, 2011 5:22:56 GMT -5 by ratt2380
I heard spydoc Is a shill for CE. She claims to be a" healthcare provider". She also says that dr.c is gay and only likes to work on men and HIV patients. She also says dr.c Isint nearly as good as he says he is, and that she would want the injections from the teacher and not the student. (meaning Anna love taught dr.c) she also said dr.c got fired. Call me crazy, but that sounds like a shill.....
supa by far the best forum! gerryc didnt see your post, but I find it funny in the post from supa she bashes hydrogel....and part of the "secret ingredient" of precise that coincidentally only she knows is in fact.......hydrogel lol.
justpitchingin: Anyways.. I have had the Elist procedure.. only 14 weeks post-op.. So far so good.. But be warned the girth is actually something that may not be appreciated as it may be a bit much for folks that are not into girth..
Mar 18, 2017 1:33:43 GMT -5
happy: guys that had Elist surgery recently and are recovering and all is well...I'd like to communicate with guys that had the surgery within the last year so I can gauge my progress
Mar 27, 2017 19:52:32 GMT -5
May 7, 2017 12:41:15 GMT -5
localyokel: looking for source of papaverine without needing RX...
May 7, 2017 12:42:05 GMT -5
naginati: What happenedover atphallobaords 2? It's disabled, someone get in touch with Skeptical one!
Oct 1, 2017 15:45:49 GMT -5
hunkchunk: Hi Skeptical One, I hope this posting reaches you. You're aware that the new forum is down and I thought maybe you could post here if this one will be revived or if another hosting platform is forthcoming. Thanks and see you in the threads ! Hunk Chunk
Oct 4, 2017 1:44:58 GMT -5
naginati: Hunkchunk! I started a reddit group, search for phalloboards. It's a way to communicate at least.
Oct 5, 2017 6:21:45 GMT -5
growing: Why I cannot post any new topics?
Oct 5, 2017 17:19:58 GMT -5
hacid: Why can't I post on this forum??
Oct 11, 2017 12:19:54 GMT -5
sxybst: yes, what the heck happened?
Oct 20, 2017 14:24:22 GMT -5
herbertwest: Hi everyone! I'm also wondering, what's happened with site? Guys, please, write your emails to SO or Hoddle10, we need to return the forum.
P.S. Reklaw, if you read this, please PM me or send me email, you know my email adress.
Oct 23, 2017 13:50:58 GMT -5
sydshow: I emailed the host two weeks ago, no reply! Was hoping it would have come back by now.. anyone?
Oct 23, 2017 16:57:39 GMT -5
Deleted: Uhhh where did this site go?
Nov 10, 2017 15:57:07 GMT -5
champ101: Dr Colin Moore is a butcher, NEVER allow him anywhere near your penis. His work is VERY bad and his fees are far in excess of others who complete these surgeries much better. He could not care less about his patients, his work is VERY bad.
Mar 8, 2018 9:11:56 GMT -5
yvesthibeaultrocher: Hi guys, any of you interested in checking out my magazine, it's a men's health magazine which is completely new, we write about a number of things, including penis enlargement surgery.
Jan 20, 2020 10:24:13 GMT -5