Heard of PMMA (Medical Grade) OR Dr Casavantes?

[dd72]

Great question hoddle, I was wondering that myself..........

[supa]

PMMA articles recently posted by me in this thread have been saved here: phalloplasty.proboards.com/index.cgi?action=display&board=fillers&thread=244&page=1.

As asked by SO, all please make sure you file pertinent articles in the thread above. So that interested forum members don't grow old wandering aimlessly around threads ...

@so: "Repaired" link :-) : www.clinicadebioplastia.com.br/wp-content/uploads/2010/09/personalexperience.pdf

On Dr. Carruthers: may be it has escaped your attention but in findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_hb4393/is_8_36/ai_n29200277/ he expresses concerns on PMMA rather than endorsing the product. I quote from the page:

<< Dr. Carruthers also had words of caution concerning late-onset granulomatous reactions with Artecoll during an earlier talk at the annual Hawaii dermatology seminar sponsored by the Skin Disease Education Foundation in Maui.

Although a 2003 publication cited just 15 cases of delayed granulomatous reactions worldwide, he has seen at least 8 cases in Vancouver alone, including one in a patient he personally injected with the permanent filler.

Another patient injected 3 years ago by another physician has not responded to numerous therapies, said Dr. Carruthers.

"I've spent a year and a half treating her with everything I can think of to throw at her," he said.>>

[supa]

errata/corrige:

saved here: phalloplasty.proboards.com/index.cgi?action=display&board=fillers&thread=244&page=1

one dot too many at the end of the address: hmtl syntax is unforgiving.

[sparticus]

I'm aware Dr. Carruthers has stated concerns for pmma in the past. However, I do think its worthwhile to investigate Dr. Klein's allegations that he at least at one point had ties to Artes medical. The reason is that maybe he was critical at one point and then became a turncoat in the face of financial profit. Maybe Klein is just talking bullshit because of his own interests. Either way, I feel Dr. Carruthers ties should be investigated for the benefit of this forum.

[hunkchunk]

Jun 24, 2011 10:35:55 GMT -5 Skeptical One said:

The article concludes:

The soft tissue augmenting agent Artecoll has proven to be a safe, effective, and long-lasting solution for dermal contour deficiencies. It is widely recommended by physicians and sought after by patients.

In experienced hands, it is associated with a very low incidence of adverse effects; indeed it has been argued that it has the lowest reported incidence of side effects among long-lasting injectable fillers...

Hi SO,

This article you quote seems to reflect the very same observation made by Dr Marc Abecasssis who graciously replied to my questions a couple of weeks ago.

"I don't like PMMA nor Hyaluronic Acid, at least in my own hands, we can further discuss this later."

This does bring to light that PMMA is something which can have very different results, from better to worse. It involves a form of reactive plasty, one which relies upon a high degree of artistry and craftsmanship in order to intuitively place the exact amount of the appropriate concentration of substance where it is anticipated that it will respond and develop collagen harmoniously to attain the desired effect. In that light Dr C might be considered the Michelangelo of Phalloplasty as his skill and talent regularly produce excellent results whereas other surgeons who are skilled in other techniques find it next to impossible to reach such positive results.

The above quote comes from his reply which can be read in its entirety here:

Dedicated thread in PhalloBoards Surgeons Section

HC

[ratt2380]

Hey everyone,
Whew!! 131 pages...I just finished going through them all - it's an amazing resource. Also it's great to find a non-commercial space where we can discuss these things. Thanks to all. Lots of things buzzing in my head with all this new info...so where to start?

My background: I'm fairly average, but definitely on the smaller side of normal. About 6" EL (+/- depending on horniness) and 4.5" EG. I turtle like crazy though, and my FL ranges from probably like 2" (less??) to 4", without any real reason. I really hate this! I'm not looking to become huge, but would like to be around 5 to 5.5" EG, and prevent the kind of crazy retraction I get now. (I've pretty much accepted that erect length gains are unlikely.) Aesthetics are really important to me, so if I go the PMMA route, I think it would be a smaller dose, with focus on touch-ups later. I have a couple questions after reading the thread that I don't think were addressed - I'd love any responses, especially from the vets.

1) There was a lot of discussion about the feel of the penis early in the thread, relatively soon after the "pioneers" had it done. Could some people who are now at least 6 weeks post-touch up (session 2 or 3) weigh in on how their penis feels now that they have the final results? How palpable are the PMMA threads? Erect vs flaccid?

2) I don't totally understand why the FDA has approved PMMA for the face, but not the penis? Is this because of the patent held by the current company, or did the FDA raise specific objections to PMMA use elsewhere?

3) Thread discussed why Viagra might not be a good idea during the procedure, but what about taking one right afterwards (or mid-procedure, so it kicks in right afterwards)? Having an erection for a few hours post-op might help guys massage where necessary and ensure even distribution? Any thoughts (or experiences)?

I'll leave it at that for now (but more to come!). I'm also hoping to contact some of the doctors whose names I've seen in the various studies posted here, in order to get a clearer sense of their ideas about PMMA specifically in the penis. Will definitely post back. Best to all.

[hunkchunk]

@ttar2380

Great idea about Viagra post op. I am also thinking of using local applications of collagen stimulants along with DMSO to improve penetration, but that might actually be dangerous if the DMSO makes the gel from the PMMA move into other parts of the penis where it isn't intended to go? That one is important to validate first by Dr Casavantes prior to using: DMSO is playing with matches in a place we don't really want to get burned...

HC

[Skeptical One]

Jun 26, 2011 3:26:13 GMT -5 @ratt2380 said:

Hey everyone,
Whew!! 131 pages...I just finished going through them all - it's an amazing resource. Also it's great to find a non-commercial space where we can discuss these things. Thanks to all. Lots of things buzzing in my head with all this new info...so where to start?

My background: I'm fairly average, but definitely on the smaller side of normal. About 6" EL (+/- depending on horniness) and 4.5" EG. I turtle like crazy though, and my FL ranges from probably like 2" (less??) to 4", without any real reason. I really hate this! I'm not looking to become huge, but would like to be around 5 to 5.5" EG, and prevent the kind of crazy retraction I get now. (I've pretty much accepted that erect length gains are unlikely.) Aesthetics are really important to me, so if I go the PMMA route, I think it would be a smaller dose, with focus on touch-ups later. I have a couple questions after reading the thread that I don't think were addressed - I'd love any responses, especially from the vets.

1) There was a lot of discussion about the feel of the penis early in the thread, relatively soon after the "pioneers" had it done. Could some people who are now at least 6 weeks post-touch up (session 2 or 3) weigh in on how their penis feels now that they have the final results? How palpable are the PMMA threads? Erect vs flaccid?

2) I don't totally understand why the FDA has approved PMMA for the face, but not the penis? Is this because of the patent held by the current company, or did the FDA raise specific objections to PMMA use elsewhere?

3) Thread discussed why Viagra might not be a good idea during the procedure, but what about taking one right afterwards (or mid-procedure, so it kicks in right afterwards)? Having an erection for a few hours post-op might help guys massage where necessary and ensure even distribution? Any thoughts (or experiences)?

I'll leave it at that for now (but more to come!). I'm also hoping to contact some of the doctors whose names I've seen in the various studies posted here, in order to get a clearer sense of their ideas about PMMA specifically in the penis. Will definitely post back. Best to all.

Glad to have you here, and congrats for completing the entire thread, it is most definitely a crucial read for those considering this method.

As for your questions:

1. I'm 6 weeks out in a few days and well, everything seems natural as far as the "feel" of it is concerned. The flaccid behaves like a flaccid, and it becomes very firm when erect. It is more palpable in the flaccid - kind of like a cartilage-ish implant feel, although I suspect it would be undetectable to someone who doesn't know you have it when being touched. I don't think you can actually feel the PMMA beads. I think when anyone has described feeling what they thought were the beads may in fact have been feeling contour ridges in the collagen formation...since afterall, PMMA beads are about 40 microns in size and I'd be shocked if anyone could point them out.

2. Hard to say why but I theorize that by "adding penile application" to their patent would have only complicated/burdened the patent process (since as we all know that phalloplasty is quite taboo), so sticking with the more conservative "facial" approach might have been wiser. This is purely a theory, as to the actual reason why, I'm not sure anyone here knows.

3. My understanding is if you plan to have a procedure done, better safe than sorry. Definitely consult Dr. C regarding this, but I'm pretty certain he would be against it, until AT LEAST after your appointment. Do NOT self-medicate/prescribe under any circumstances on or around this procedure's date should you decide to get it done.

As for other doctors found on this forum, anticipate a generally negative feedback, since I doubt a FFT doctor will speak highly of Alloderm, or a Belladerm doctor speak highly of Dermal Fat Grafts, or that a Scaffold doctor would speak highly of the silicone implant. In the end, their practices are also businesses so keep that in mind.

Good luck!

[hoddle10]

Jun 26, 2011 3:26:13 GMT -5 @ratt2380 said:

2) I don't totally understand why the FDA has approved PMMA for the face, but not the penis? Is this because of the patent held by the current company, or did the FDA raise specific objections to PMMA use elsewhere?

I think it's actually quite common to get approval for only one area as "off label" use isn't illegal. It obviously just makes the application process easier. For example, Alloderm is only approved for certain applications, yet, as we know, it is used in the penis. For many years Botox was used "off label" in the face. Hence when Allergan did get FDA approval for the face, the stock price didn't alter at all.

[dd72]

Here are some correspondence between me and some drs that post on real self and make me heal;
Message from Customer: Hi dr, I've combed threw this website regarding pmma treatments to better understand complications and personal experience with the product. For the most part, US drs are extremely negative about pmma.I belive that there reasoning is a; it's permanent and takes away from repeat treatments(hence not as profitable as temp. Fillers )b; are very inexperienced/unfamiliar with using it and don't want to give patients a permanent problem.c;given the current cost of artefill, treatments over 10cc aren't in most patients price range. I also belive that most US drs aren't aware of the surprisingly low complication rate. I've done a ton of research and most of the horrifying complications(infection, migration) aren't even reported. Most of the problems I've seen are are granulomas/nodules and esthetic issues which are usually a result of overfilling/ drs inexperience.you seem the least bias in the matter of pmma so my question to you is this. I want a pmma injection from dr casavates in TJ Mexico for girth enhancement in my penis.He is one of the most experienced drs in the world for this procedure. He uses only high grade pmma(new plastic )and I've seen many successful results with this procedure. Do you believe that this part of the body is more susceptible to complications? Also would removal be easier given there is already an entry/exit point with the circumcision scar? I would only need 30cc give or take over 2 sessions(so no overfilling)and if a problem were to occur, scaring would be less of an issue( given it's not on the face) . I'm sure your not familiar with phalloplasty, but the alternatives here in the states aren't very promising. A successfull procedure would drastically increase my life quality, so an informative response would be greatly appreciated. Thanks for your time dr, be well
Dr:Sorry I have NO experience with this for penis use 
Dd:I understand that dr, I was asking for an opinion. And if you can't give a hypothesis...in your experience.... Does pmma have a large complication rate?
Dr:Cannot say for penis use but in buttock use no very low compl. rates.
-Miami based dr

[dd72]

Message #2:hey dr, what would you consider a large amount of pmma. Im considering having a small amount injected(20-40cc)Ive read that infections and granulomas are extremley rare. Also with the formation of the bodys collogen migration is next to impossible. Whould you agree that the above amount would make Complications minimal? Also what complications have you PERSONALLY diagnosed?

Dr:I do not inject PMMA in ammounts larger than 2 cc, and just for the face. 20 to 40cc in that area are a considerable amount, and because the risk of complications is related with the injected amount for an specific area, I will be afraid to get it there, even 10cc it make result in lumps, uneveness, infection, painful granulomas, etc.

Dd

[supa]

Jun 26, 2011 10:56:34 GMT -5 dd72 said:

Here are some correspondence between me and some drs that post on real self and make me heal;
Message from Customer: Hi dr, I've combed threw this website regarding pmma treatments to better understand complications and personal experience with the product. For the most part, US drs are extremely negative about pmma.I belive that there reasoning is a; it's permanent and takes away from repeat treatments(hence not as profitable as temp. Fillers )b; are very inexperienced/unfamiliar with using it and don't want to give patients a permanent problem.c;given the current cost of artefill, treatments over 10cc aren't in most patients price range. I also belive that most US drs aren't aware of the surprisingly low complication rate. I've done a ton of research and most of the horrifying complications(infection, migration) aren't even reported. Most of the problems I've seen are are granulomas/nodules and esthetic issues which are usually a result of overfilling/ drs inexperience.you seem the least bias in the matter of pmma so my question to you is this. I want a pmma injection from dr casavates in TJ Mexico for girth enhancement in my penis.He is one of the most experienced drs in the world for this procedure. He uses only high grade pmma(new plastic )and I've seen many successful results with this procedure. Do you believe that this part of the body is more susceptible to complications? Also would removal be easier given there is already an entry/exit point with the circumcision scar? I would only need 30cc give or take over 2 sessions(so no overfilling)and if a problem were to occur, scaring would be less of an issue( given it's not on the face) . I'm sure your not familiar with phalloplasty, but the alternatives here in the states aren't very promising. A successfull procedure would drastically increase my life quality, so an informative response would be greatly appreciated. Thanks for your time dr, be well
Dr:Sorry I have NO experience with this for penis use 
Dd:I understand that dr, I was asking for an opinion. And if you can't give a hypothesis...in your experience.... Does pmma have a large complication rate?
Dr:Cannot say for penis use but in buttock use no very low compl. rates.
-Miami based dr

Very interesting dd72!
You ask legit questions and you get sort of an attitude in response. "no very low compl. rates". What the heck does it mean??? He should just shoot a statistics, not beating around the bush.

[dd72]

The last post was a TJ based dr by the way....
Next dr.....

Dd;Im cosidering getting a small amount of pmma injected(20-40cc)Do you belive that a smaller amount will minimize complications? Also have you PERSONALLY diagnose an infection?....ive read there extremley uncommon

Dr:PMMA is  permanent injectable product. I am not a fan of these products because they can cause long term problems.  Good luck.

Dd:Thanks dr for returning my email, MY question is what type of problems and have you PERSONALLY diagnosed any?I've read that granulomas are rare and infections are next to non- existent . I'm not getting my face done so removal scars aren't a major concern.

Dr:Once a permanent filler is placed it is almost impossible to completely remove without leaving scars.  The filler should not migrate per se, but overtime with facial wasting, it may not be where you want it, and may be noticeable and/or palpable. There are also risks of granulomas, infection, etc..

Dd

[dd72]

Sorry guys this is hard to do on th iPhone last message continued,


Dd:Dr, have you personally diagnosed granulomas or an infection? From my research granulomas are extremely rare and infections are almost non-existent. It troubles me that almost no dr will answer this question. Most drs allude to granulomas/infection without ever actually seeing one. And if you have seen either ailment, are they easy to treat with steroids/ antibiotics ? Thank you dr for your time and multiple responses, you've been more helpful than most.

Dr:I have not had to tx it for Pmma, but I have for silicone.  Granulomas have to be excised.

-Texas based dr
So from these messages, it seems they are lumping silicone and pmma together. Most never personally diagnose complications with pmma.

[Skeptical One]

Jun 26, 2011 10:56:34 GMT -5 dd72 said:

Dr:Sorry I have NO experience with this for penis use 
Dd:I understand that dr, I was asking for an opinion. And if you can't give a hypothesis...in your experience.... Does pmma have a large complication rate?
Dr:Cannot say for penis use but in buttock use no very low compl. rates.
-Miami based dr

Didn't quite make out the grammar for the last sentence, was he saying there are low complication rates?