soma
New Member
Posts: 44
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Post by soma on Apr 14, 2011 0:23:19 GMT -5
Hoddle,
What you see in photo 8 is from the skin being pulled and it being a tough photo, and that's changed a little thankfully. It does look like the graft ends there but it's actually a little lower. I'll try to take a pic that shows the bottom of it.
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Post by Skeptical One on Apr 14, 2011 1:00:27 GMT -5
messagemanLOL I think you mistakenly clicked on the "Announcement!" button again. If it was intentional than let me know, that isn't a problem, otherwise I suspect it was a mis-click LOL!
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Post by hoddle10 on Apr 14, 2011 6:30:04 GMT -5
Soma, at one point many years ago didn't you get close to 8" from hanging? I'm assuming it was you, as there was a Soma on the old perforums and he was one of my inspirations to start hanging, as he gained close to 2".
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soma
New Member
Posts: 44
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Post by soma on Apr 22, 2011 1:25:03 GMT -5
Hoddle,
I can't be sure, however I think that I have been the only Soma on Thunder and the board that preceded TP that I know of. I saw close to 1.5 flaccid stretch, but never made it to 8. I hope to change that in the next six months!
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Post by kingpin on Apr 23, 2011 19:27:36 GMT -5
Did you get Rosenthal's opinion on PMMA?
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soma
New Member
Posts: 44
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Post by soma on Apr 29, 2011 16:32:07 GMT -5
King,
I actually just email him after reading your post (thanks for the reminder). He's usually pretty good about getting back to me in a day or two. I'll let you know-
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Post by smartman on Apr 29, 2011 17:23:24 GMT -5
Soma and Kingpin,
I know Dr.Rosenthal's opinion about pmma he will tell you pmma is not good for you and he will advice everyone against it , because I have asked him that Q. around 3 years ago after 8-9 months of my surgery with him alloderm with lengthening . But I did it and still no regret but I do regret the alloderm and the waste of 11k.
BTW also Dr.Gary Alter is against it
SM
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Post by ripple on Apr 29, 2011 20:05:57 GMT -5
From what I understand, Alter is pretty much against all current forms of girth enhancement, but it would be great if we were able to get specific reasons from either him or Rosenthal.
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Post by mustang2020 on Apr 30, 2011 8:25:12 GMT -5
I think most if not all Dr's will be against PMMA unless they do it themselves. There is no dignity or honor in "most" of them. They know that PMMA is doing great and they do not want to admit it. They are pissed because they can't legally do it in the US.....yet!
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soma
New Member
Posts: 44
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Post by soma on May 4, 2011 11:02:24 GMT -5
Here's what Dr R replied regarding PMMA:
"It is illegal to use PMMA in the U.S. at this time. I have previously seen several patients who received injections in Tijuana, Mexico where the skin had hardened and made the penis nonfunctional. It is difficult to remove it if there is a problem since it becomes incorporated into the tissues. If there is an infection, it is very difficult to treat because it cannot be removed. There have been several deaths related to PMMA in South America due to methacillin-resistant staph aureus (MRSA) infection. If PMMA was considered safe, it would be approved by FDA and would be in widespread use in the US. "
For me, there appears to be more risk (health) going with the PMMA as statistics tell us that infections will happen from time to time. I feel the potential consequences of infection with PMMA outweigh the potential gains even though it appears to be effective for many on this board.
Please understand, I am not against PMMA at all and am very interested in it efficacy. However, I will probably get an additional layer of Belladerm at a much higher price because there appears to be less risk, for me-
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Post by mustang2020 on May 4, 2011 11:16:40 GMT -5
I anticipate one will get similar answers from all US based Dr's regarding pmma in the penis. Once approved thu, they will change their minds. There are many risks involved in each and every surgery. Breast implants were feared after a few silicone ones leaked but now it is approved again.
I am considering pmma if I remove my implant.
However, it has been my number one concern with the difficulty of removing pmma for what ever reason and the potential of tissue damage.
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Post by smartman on May 4, 2011 16:35:26 GMT -5
soma,
As i said i knew his answer but could you ask him next time if you see him,please :-
1- He said it is illegal to use pmma in the USA, Does he know that Artefill ( is a pmma) and it is FDA approved ??If he said not for the penis which I doubthe will tell you that but if he does ask him Q.2 .
2- He used alloderm (I had it before) and he knows that the manufacture ( life-cell ) advised not to use alloderm for the penis . So why did he use it? May be he knows better than the life-cell company .
3- I had pmma for 3 yrs and no skin hardening may be if you inject it into the dermal layers for wrinkles may be but not subcutaneously (e.g. penis) and by the way tell him they are using a micro-cannula which is blunt and you cannot with this instrument inject into the dermal layer if he knows that and my penis is still functioning well (Thank God LOL), can you ask him,plz is there any possibility of any penile nerve injury in using alloderm or belladerm ? I know he is the only surgeon who has no complications ( a perfect surgeon).
4- Infections can happen with any surgical procedures why only pmma , does he mean that the surgeries he does ( alloderm and belladerm ) have no risk of infection.
MRSA infection can happen any where and with any procedure and also in ICU patients, can you ask why can it happen with pmma and not with other material ? So i.e. Artefill should be banned in USA too unless if he ment that the south american surgeons are not using a sterile techniques that is different issue he could be right???.
5- ( This Q. maybe not a smart Q. from a smartman ) lets say if everything what he told you its true and he knows that the south american doctors are using pmma ( wich have less quality than the one FDA approved Artefill) for years now if they have these complications wouldn't he think that these Drs would stop injecting pmma in any part of our body and not only in the penis (and loose that business ) . So why still these Drs get more and more people (and from abroad) and still getting new patients asking for pmma injection?
The only thing what he said its true : it is difficult to remove pmma .
I am only trying to make things more clear its nothing against you Soma , just I would love to know Dr.R' answers to these questions. SM
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Post by hoddle10 on May 4, 2011 17:03:17 GMT -5
Here's what Dr R replied regarding PMMA: "It is illegal to use PMMA in the U.S. at this time. I have previously seen several patients who received injections in Tijuana, Mexico where the skin had hardened and made the penis nonfunctional. It is difficult to remove it if there is a problem since it becomes incorporated into the tissues. If there is an infection, it is very difficult to treat because it cannot be removed. There have been several deaths related to PMMA in South America due to methacillin-resistant staph aureus (MRSA) infection. If PMMA was considered safe, it would be approved by FDA and would be in widespread use in the US. " For me, there appears to be more risk (health) going with the PMMA as statistics tell us that infections will happen from time to time. I feel the potential consequences of infection with PMMA outweigh the potential gains even though it appears to be effective for many on this board. Please understand, I am not against PMMA at all and am very interested in it efficacy. However, I will probably get an additional layer of Belladerm at a much higher price because there appears to be less risk, for me- Gary Alter once said that removing Alloderm can be like trying to remove cement from a sponge. In his chapter in Glenn's Urological Journal Alter writes on Alloderm "many cases of infected alloderm have occurred, resulting in chronic infections and chronic skin sinuses with or without skin loss." He also says "On occassion dorsal penile skin loss has been seen from alloderm."The issue with PMMA is that infection or inflammatory reaction could happen and lead to shaft skin loss, but this can clearly also happen with dermal matrix implants. But I doubt Rosenthal is to keen to mention this. This is why I get so annoyed with US PE surgeons. They will all slate every other method but their own. When Gary Alters says he wouldn't recommend PMMA i repsect his opinion, as he is against all girth procedures. But when any of the US Dr's who do any type of girth surgery are critical of another, it always annoys me, as we all know that their track records are shockingly bad. When a Dr who uses Resylane for a facial filler is critical of PMMA, i say fair enough, as the product and method they are using instead has a good track record. But for a Dr using any of the current girth surgery methods to criticise (and lets face it, almost certianly lie about complications he's seen) use of PMMA, seems absurdly hypocrtical to me. I'd love to know, regardless of the material used, what perecentage of patients have their penis permanently damaged simply due to the surgical process (even before we even think about reactions to the material itself). I'd bet my left nut it's higher than serious problems associated with PMMA. I don't believe what Rosenthal has said about he skin hardening as it's not something I've come across in any of the literature or any forums. I think he's just made that up. Also I'm sure infection rates will be much higher with alloderm, simply because of the far higher chance of exposure to germs and bacteria. And when he says PMMA isn't legal in the US he's talking shit aswell. It's just that it costs around $800 per 0.6cc, which means about $30,000 per inch. In fact in the same way it can be used off label for use in the penis, so is alloderm/belloderm. Neither of the dermal matrix products are recommended for use in the penis and the makers of alloderm specifically don't recommend its use in the penis. So really Rosenthal has no leg to stand on in this debate. In my opinion your penis is close to perfect in size terms as it is and you shouldn't risk any further surgery. But in terms of risk, just look at the guys who have had belloderm since you have had it. I think we have 3 members who have had it (Yardstick, Candybars and someone else whose name i can't remember). All 3 have gone badly and the guy whose name I can't remember says he no longer has the energy to get out of bed as he's depressed. Why roll the dice again when you've had such a great result?
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Post by Skeptical One on May 4, 2011 19:50:54 GMT -5
Here's what Dr R replied regarding PMMA: "It is illegal to use PMMA in the U.S. at this time. I have previously seen several patients who received injections in Tijuana, Mexico where the skin had hardened and made the penis nonfunctional. It is difficult to remove it if there is a problem since it becomes incorporated into the tissues. If there is an infection, it is very difficult to treat because it cannot be removed. There have been several deaths related to PMMA in South America due to methacillin-resistant staph aureus (MRSA) infection. If PMMA was considered safe, it would be approved by FDA and would be in widespread use in the US. " For me, there appears to be more risk (health) going with the PMMA as statistics tell us that infections will happen from time to time. I feel the potential consequences of infection with PMMA outweigh the potential gains even though it appears to be effective for many on this board. Please understand, I am not against PMMA at all and am very interested in it efficacy. However, I will probably get an additional layer of Belladerm at a much higher price because there appears to be less risk, for me- Dr. R is clearly ignorant on the matter of PMMA and/or misleading. I think Smartman & Hoddle's responses more than clarify what appears to be a doctor defending his livelihood (Alloderm/belladerm) and would love to bash anything that costs a fraction of his procedure with many times its success. Dr. R is definitely not free from complaints as demonstrated by some members on this forum. Even with PMMA's recent popularity, I could not say with certainty that it would be complication free. MRSA is a possibility, but like Smartman pointed out, MRSA is a possibility with virtually any medical procedure that involves injecting/puncturing or incisions. By bringing this very point up demonstrates what I see as a clear and unfair bashing of PMMA. It is sickening to presume his own procedure doesn't possess the risk of MRSA or any other number of complications. If you are going to bash one method for a certain risk that happens to be just as much of a possibility in your own method, you're a BS'ing doctor!!!
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Post by Skeptical One on May 4, 2011 19:53:33 GMT -5
I sincerely would love for a doctor or researcher to bring up REAL science/data pertaining to why PMMA could be risky. Like what mechanism is in play when and if a complication occurs. ANd are these risks resolvable by modifying a technique? Instead we have an American Doctor who is spewing out total horse ****.
If it weren't for the exchange of information found here on these forums, I could actually see many people believing what Dr. R has to say about PMMA.
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