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Post by tuckmeunder on Feb 27, 2011 23:49:50 GMT -5
Sheldon, in the blog Dr. Reed is referring to a penile prosthesis implant. Doctors often refer to it as just an 'implant' or 'penile implant' but it's a completely different, unrelated product. It's also relatively mainstream. (See Wikipedia for explanation.) In the Proboards entry he was clearly discussing the crescent-shaped testicle implants he formerly used, not a penile implant. (Perhaps he misunderstood the question?) However I do recall Reed announcing that he was experimenting with molded silicone strips for enlargement back in 1997, but he later just stopped mentioning it. Here's a quote taken from Reed's web site via the Internet Archive circa December 1997: That text still appears in the Feb 1998 archive, but it had been removed by Dec 1998. Apparently Dr. Reed probably does have some insight into pre-molded implants for enlargement, but someone would probably have to ask for his opinion...unambiguously.
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Post by idm on Feb 28, 2011 13:46:36 GMT -5
Reed states (or did state at one time) that he used silicone strips for a period but discontinued the practice due to high complication rate-extrusion was specifically sited as the example.
A silicone penile implant would appear to be an obvious dream come true for those who seek a significant penile enhancement. I'm happy that a few men hear have for reason that we can postulate have tolerated the implant. Unfortunately what is really an ideal concept in so many ways, is flawed and presents unacceptably high risks for complications.
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Post by marknmau on Mar 2, 2011 13:15:16 GMT -5
I agree with you idm, and I am one of the lucky one's who did tolerate the implant. As much as I really like it and the improvement it has caused to my (our) sex life, I couldn't in good conscience, recommend it to anyone. On the other hand I wouldn't tell anyone who has closely looked at all the available info and weighed out all the possible outcomes, good and bad, and STILL wants to go ahead and chance it, not to do it either. It is an individual choice, and we really don't have the numbers, like I stated in prior posts, so it really, and unfortunally is a guess. Since Elist doesn't seem willing to share these statistics with us. I'm guessing they are better odds than what we get from our respondants on these forums..... but still very poor, maybe 80% turn out ok?? I'm just guessing though, in any case, I don't know law that well, but with his disclaimers he has patients sign, I doubt if the numbers are bad enough to shut him down. And as long as he is still allowed to operate, I think guys .... if really desperate, have the choice to "roll the dice" It's really too bad, I think if he could ever get this perfected, it's a great way to get a big unit, like I say I love mine, but just wish so bad that it would work for every guy. maybe some day who knows. And once again I'm no shill for Elist and could care less if he gets rich or not
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Post by allofme2 on Mar 2, 2011 14:23:37 GMT -5
marknmau - were it only so - 80% would be an excellent result - but it is no where close unfortunately as someone who has tracked quite a few cases. I can't give a definite percentage but on the evidence I have the failure rate appears by far to exceed successful cases.
The real question of course one has to ask oneself is - does one want a plastic cock? Because that is what it is - a sheath of hard plastic with extremely rough edges - that includes the new so-called improved softer version which you will be hard-pressed to see any difference from the older version. Why not just invest in a dildo?
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Post by Skeptical One on Mar 2, 2011 15:39:31 GMT -5
I want to emphasize the fact that no one has a definitive percentage. I doubt anyone even knows the exact number of patients he has performed this on. What we do know is that there are multiple reports of both good and bad results. I agree with Mark, ultimately at the end of the day you must decide your own risk threshold. The info is all here, and more is being added every day. What may be more damning than any success rate percentages is the employment of shills on behalf of the Elist camp.
I believe every single method to date has shown both good and bad. PMMA is the only girth technique that I know of that hasn't yielded any negative results for penile application. However, it is extremely premature to conclude PMMA as being any safer than the alternative methods.
Until there is a medical-board approved phalloplastic technique that is safe, effective, and permanent, we are all essentially the pioneers (aka guinea pigs) who are advancing this field with our own penises. That is why it is imperative to research and make the best decision. It is this community...this fraternity that will provide the end result for a universal & accepted method.
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Post by marknmau on Mar 2, 2011 19:55:02 GMT -5
I was hoping this site wouldn't devolve into this kind of personal attack crap, what is your problem? I don't need to "invest in a dildo" you jerk! I've got.... and had ...... a good sized dick from the start. And I don't have to "really ask myself if I want a plastic cock" either! I guess you'll never date a gal with implants then right? who's fricking SKIN is it? huh? isn't that what you touch your partner with? do YOU know how it feels? I do! It feels great! when I have sex now, it feels just like it did pre-implant only tighter! thats how it feels, but I guess you know! hey... guess what? ALL! of this PE stuff is putting something phony in your dick, so what! Like I said....... I ... get it....... I! .... me! .....I don't mind it, and neither does my wife. you can barely tell anythings in there when erect, and when flaccid, we don't care that much about how it feels. I just walked around a nude beach for a couple weeks, and no one noticed there either, it's only when you touch and examine it (flaccid) that it's obvious. But hey! your the expert right!? how did your's feel?? did you ever have it? Oh thats right! your someone who has "tracked quite a few cases" sorry I forgot.... your the expert on this matter...... even though "you can't give a definite percentage" but on "the evidence you have" .. what? the evidence YOU HAVE!! WELL..... why didn't you say so.!!.... YOU have the EVIDENCE!! welll.... now thats a relief.... we can all relax, cause allofme2 has the fricken EVIDENCE!!!! and you have this evidence from where?!! oh... of course! from ALL of Elist's patients of course!..... because we all know that ALL! of Elists patients want to get on these forums and be told how fricken stupid they are and that their's and their partners enjoyment from it is bullshit and that they are only one of a fraction of guys who've had it that really like it. and that they are foolish and should just buy a fricken dildo and that ...... THIS.... is exactly why I happen to think that the numbers (percentages) are a lot better than most of you Elist haters think they are..... because how many guys who get this implant even seek out these forums, if they had no major issues with it? ....... Thats all I'm sayin"! and then how many would want to get on here and admit! to getting the implant? when they will undoubtedly get subtely.... and now I guess, overtly..... slammed for having it and liking it!?? and being thought of as a shill just for saying that YOU.... just YOU! happen to like the thing, even though stating many times that..... I probably wouldn't do it again, knowing what I know now .......... unbelievable! see ya!
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Post by hoddle10 on Mar 2, 2011 20:27:09 GMT -5
I think marknmau mentioned something quite interesting when he says he and his wife are happy with it and that it's only detectable in it's flaccid state. To me this highlights one of the issue's these type of messagboards will always have. What is an acceptable situation for one guy, will be totally unacceptable for another. For most single guys, the idea of having an obviously detectable implant, would perhaps be worse than having a small penis. I'd be terrified everytime a girl went near it incase she asked what it was. But for guys, like markmau, who are happily married and their wives are aware that they are getting the implant, then it's totally different. I've always been very anti the implant for many reasons, but there are guys who are happy with it, but those considering it, must take into account the circumstances under which those are happy with it are in. Stale Mango isn't married, but he said he doesn't mind that its detectbale, but I'd say for single guys, he'd be in a pretty small minority.
There tend to be 3 groups of implant patient. Those who have had problems (ie infection, lop sided, burst through skin etc) which meant they had to have it removed, those who like it and those that had it removed simply because they didn't like who it felt or looked. The difference between the second and third groups are surely just down to personal opinion and therefore it's vital anyone considering this procedure to be aware of this and decide which group they are likely to be in. As a single guy who plans on having sex with lots more women yet, it just wouldn't be an option for me (I wouldn't do it anyway as I don't believe in the concept). But, if a married guy, who makes the decision with his wife and therefore isn't so concerned about it seeming natural, would be in a different position to someone like myself.
marknmau, concerning the numbers, no one will be able to say with any certainty, but I was told by both Serbian Dr's (who hate each other and wouldn't back each other for the sake of it), that when Elist trialled the implant there, after he left, they had to remove all of them accept one. And they did over 20! Also I know for a fact that he is working with a very well known surgeon at the moment and this surgeon still thinks the implant needs more work. But the work they are doing seems to be concerned with preventing infections, so it isn't going to overcome the main problems.
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Post by allofme2 on Mar 2, 2011 20:29:16 GMT -5
Markmnau - your defensiveness and name calling is revealing. Who posed the fact that the elist plant has a 80% success - where is the evidence of the specific number. I never made a statement about specifics but it is based on a straw poll. What's yours based On?- sucked out of your thumb.
I am delighted your implant worked out but that does not negate the fact that the implant is plastic and creates in the flaccid state a hard unnatural feel with edges - been there done it hated it. It is the price you are prepared to pay - I don't believe most given this information would have it. That is what this forum is about -information. Your statement of 80% success rate is misinformation.
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Post by Skeptical One on Mar 2, 2011 22:30:33 GMT -5
@mark & Allofme2
Please resume the topic matter, I ask you both to refrain from continued bickering (or at the very least, take it to Private Messaging). I understand the sensitivity of the Elist implant on this forum and we must remember the importance of respecting other people's decision and preferences/tolerances for aesthetics.
Again, please resume the topic matter, thanks.
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Post by allofme2 on Mar 3, 2011 2:19:25 GMT -5
SO - I value your fair-minded interceptions but you acknowledge that no one has the correct statistics - but for someone to pose themselves as having a successful implant and then to go on to quote a % success overall of 80% must be called to account publicy because that is in everyone's interest. If I were a potential wavering Elist client that kind of talk could swing me - 80% chance of success is a good batting average which is why it has to be challenged and corrected. Few can claim success with Elist because complications arise months and even years down the line.
You further state "every method has good and bad." The point with Elist is the bad is butchery no less as evidenced by a long list of victims. He has done great harm to people who fell for his fast lines and guarantees and ended up at a point worse than where they started, some even fighting the ravages for the rest of their lives. That does not put him in the same league of practitioners who use more traditional methods where the bad is manageable but their method also has a big upside potential. That is a different scale of judgement altogether. What Elist is doing is unscruplous because he puts money before the patient's health or wellbeing.
This thread was started to warn people about giving wrong information and while I dont envy your job, we must be free to state the facts as we find them publicy. Otherwise this is going to turn into a cosy talking-shop of half facts and undercover shill activity.
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Post by Skeptical One on Mar 3, 2011 5:43:35 GMT -5
Asserting success rate percentages as facts are against forum rules. But Mark clearly speculated, saying "I'm just guessing though." Had he not implied it was pure speculation, there would be issues and I would have addressed it accordingly. Obviously, stating any percentage at all without any solid numbers from the doctor can be walking a fine line between innocent speculation & misconstruing facts. I think the lesson here is to refrain from suggesting percentages at all, whether it be for the success or failure of the implant unless the doctor were to issue them himself. As an exception, we can cite smaller sample sizes that have been obtained through credible sources but must not consider them conclusive for the entire procedure (unless we were to obtain significantly larger sample sizes). I think this is the safest way to approach the matter, but suggestions are welcome. Mark makes a valid point, success stories are far less likely to search and post on this forum (that are not shills) than those who have had complications. While some end up doing so anyways, for the majority this can be a very personal and private decision, and there are many who would rather not share their stories. Considering this theory/scenario, our perceptions of how unsuccessful the implant is can be distorted. Allofme2, I ultimately know how important it is that all the potential complications that can arise from the implant be made public. I personally considered the implant an option but after multiple reports of complications and the employment of shills, I have officially scratched that choice off my list. My role as Administrator is to maintain a forum where the conversations are uncensored, comprehensive, and mature. Daily I deal with site maintenance, shill scouting, rule-enforcing, consulting, and dialogue-exchange - all of which are not as simple as they seem . I'll continue to try my best to encourage objectivity and discourage harmful speculation. As always, any comments, questions, or concerns can be PM'ed to me or stated at the Feedback Forum. -S.O.
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Post by allofme2 on Mar 3, 2011 12:13:29 GMT -5
SO - not wanting to bang on but as it is my thread I need to defend my corner - Mark did say "I'm just guessing though" is no defence to produce erroneous facts because it amounts to sucking it from the air. What is more, it is subliminal affirmation for a procedure that countless forums have shown has proved very dangerous to many who have undergone the procedure. There is no minimum figure when it comes to butchery - one is too many. If as the results have clearly shown people have been harmed by it then by ethical standards the procedure should be withdrawn or at the very least the clients made aware of the dangers. This doctor assures you of success when he knows that to be far from the truth in many if not most cases.
Therefore I defend my position any form of affirmation where injury and suffering on the scale that this dr has caused should be stamped on. He is not worthy of the title of dr because he breaks the fundamental basis of his trade - 'do no harm'.
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Post by idm on Mar 3, 2011 16:11:46 GMT -5
Guys,
I really think we're all on the same side here- No winner/loser in this conversation. There's certainly a lot that we all agree upon re: the Elist procedure and no need to over scrutinize language in this case.
Mark is one, as he admits himself ( and based on the info we have), of the few success stories w/the silicone implant. He's been a major contributor to this and other forums and I know I speak for many when I say his participation has been valuable.
We all know there are very significant risks w/a subcutaneous silicone penile implant. This remains a controversial procedure. Elist should be invited to answer questions directly on this forum...I don't think he would if he were asked.
Idm
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Post by allofme2 on Mar 4, 2011 11:46:56 GMT -5
IDM - this forum is not a match - it is I believe about providing useful information on which its users can base their decisions.
We know that information has become distorted because the Dr himself controls everything over at MNS - they tolerate no criticism. If you were to ask the Dr himself he would no doubt welcome coming on here to spread more of his propaganda. And people like Mark help his cause by promoting wrong facts because it worked out for him ie the 'sort of 80% success rate with photos to prove it.
Dr Elist has nothing to worry about this site because to all intents and purposes it is yet another propaganda tool. The way Mark and co promote their success must have the dr laughing all the way to the bank with language couched in 'do your own research and be sure it is right for you' Where are people supposed to get this information? MNS? the Dr's office or from exponents on this site who are full of the joys of their expanded penises which have come at the expense of so much suffering from others? The view would be balanced if there were butchered cocks also showing - but there are none herein and not likely to be either because for those people it is too late and pontificating on a forum like this apart from the occasional bitch ain't going to help them - so you can see the distortion of this forum and why I believe in its present form it hinders rather than helps many make a decision.
Perhaps I could ask you this: in what way has Mark's participation been valuable to you?
OK - what is the solution? The site would be more balanced if sure you allowed people to post their experiences and photos under a normal thread - so long as these are verifiable. This allows conversation and challenges to be made at the time and eventually these just fall off the radar by dint of new contributors with new threads coming on. But it can be viewed in context and challenged at the time so everyone can enter the debate at the right point. But by maintaining a separate gallery where only successes can be seen is unwittingly causing this distortion and I am afraid to say gives it an air of respectability because it is seen out of context.
My two cents worth!
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Post by allofme2 on Mar 4, 2011 12:03:29 GMT -5
One more thing - I am going to find that 'invisible user' and do unto him what Elist has been doing unto so many.
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