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Post by new1inch on Mar 14, 2011 0:18:06 GMT -5
Ok so if you have any Pmma concerns or find new articles about Pmma you can post them here.
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Post by sparticus on Mar 14, 2011 23:06:59 GMT -5
Is there a quick way to move the posted studies and concerns from the other thread to here?
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Post by new1inch on Mar 15, 2011 18:28:09 GMT -5
SO can do it for you... ask him
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Post by Skeptical One on Mar 15, 2011 19:56:11 GMT -5
I can move posts from one thread to another, but I'll need to know which posts you had in mind. I just have to be sure by moving the posts that I don't somehow distort other conversations that were going on in the same thread. Alternatively, one could copy & paste relevant information, but if its actual posts you want me to move, let me know.
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Post by Skeptical One on Mar 15, 2011 19:56:37 GMT -5
@moderators
You all can move posts too if you see fit.
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Post by sparticus on Mar 16, 2011 0:19:19 GMT -5
I was thinking about just moving all the posts regarding studies or were directly talking about risks. Maybe its too scattered in the thread.
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Post by matthew2003 on Mar 16, 2011 3:33:42 GMT -5
well my concern is whether having pmma injected will be unhealthty to an unborn child, will it cause deformities or disease, but i really dont have anyway of finding out. I was even thinking of freezing my sperm before the procedure, so that when im ready to have children i will have more knowledge about pmma, and possibly have to do it the IVF way.
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Post by matthew2003 on Mar 16, 2011 3:35:18 GMT -5
sorry, to explain it better, im worried that the pmma could somehow mutate your sperm.
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Post by mustang2020 on Mar 16, 2011 4:19:27 GMT -5
I can't see why PMMA would in any way change the sperm DNA or effect the sperm in any way. The sperm is made in the testis and the sperm fluid is made in the prostate and they are all separate from each other.
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Post by matthew2003 on Mar 16, 2011 8:28:20 GMT -5
so my concern was that in the drying period for the pmma, the first 2 or 3 days, couldnt some of it somehow leak into the scrotum??, I have quite a long turkey neck from penis stretching, i feel like the pmma could easily spread to my scrotum area during the drying stage. I know Dr C uses a cock ring after the surgery, but i dont know if this could totally stop any spreading.
I guess im just imagining the pmma drying, but a little bit spreading to my scrotum and then driying and staying there without my knowing it. Then one day i have sex to make a baby, the sperm enters the scrotum, gets manipulated or includes a little pmma somehow and then when it enters the egg, the sperm is somehow mutated.
i know it might sound over the top, but at the same time i dont want to be giving birth to the elephant man if you know what i mean. So yeah as i wrote im thinking of doing sperm freezing before my procedure, so i can have a decade of pmma research to make sure that it would be safe.
It would be good it i could donate sperm first, then get the procedure and have it tested afterwards, to see if its different, but i dont know anything about science to know if they can check if sperm is changed or anything like that. just writing my feelings i guess, im sure if i told my future wife about getting injected with this stuff before having our baby, she would be immediately concerned and worried.
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Post by mustang2020 on Mar 16, 2011 11:12:47 GMT -5
Always good to be on the safe side and think of the worst possible scenario. But, the PMMA is injected under the penile skin and it quickly seems to form and stick to the skin (correct me if I am wrong) and has little chance, if done properly, to go where it is not supposed to. The testis are sealed and pmma will not enter them where the sperms are made.
Good luck with your decision no matter what it is.
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Post by hoddle10 on Mar 16, 2011 11:29:16 GMT -5
I think Dr Lemperle said in theory it could move in the period after injection and before it sets in place.
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Post by Skeptical One on Mar 16, 2011 11:29:33 GMT -5
sparticusI'm afraid the posts in the previous thread are too scattered to make it practical to move over here, especially since the gaps left behind will disorient the flow of that thread's conversation. My recommendation would be to copy & paste any pertinent posts OR alternatively re-ask the same questions and re-engage the debate here.
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Post by sparticus on Mar 16, 2011 23:16:44 GMT -5
Pmma does not have mutagenic properties. Your sperm will be fine. There are other concerns with pmma: chronic inflammation, granulomas, migration, and in some cases necrosis. I recommend you read through the main pmma thread, I know it's long, but it's your dick and if you value it you can take a few hours and read it. There is a large scale study posted on artefil (5 year follow up) that showed granuloma and side effects were rare, but keep in mind the study was funded by the manufacturer of artefill, so it is likely a little biased. Also casavantes, the physician forum members are seeing uses bioplasty, which is a different product of pmma than artefill. The forum does not currently have links to large scale studies on bioplasty. Researchers investigating pmma found the beads can change size over time in guenea pigs that were injected with pmma. Change in shape or size could cause migration, an inflammatory response, and granuloma formation. So even if the formulation is perfect and contain no impurities when you get injected, there is no guarentee that they will stay in the proper form, especially years from injection, evidence in guenea pig models shows it can change. Top USA dermatologist Arnold Klein argues against all permanent fillers including pmma, if you don't know him google him he is among the most well known dermatologists in the country. Also, there are mixed reviews regarding pmma if you surf physician boards, some approve of it and cite the artefill study, others (majority from the sites i've seen) are against it and feel the risks manifest themselves years later. It comes down to what studies you trust. Me personally, I put more weight towards the independently conducted studies regarding animals over the company funded study on people. The reason is that I have seen company funded research almost systematically be pro product regardless of field I have investigated: food additives, enviromental effects of a waste product, food container liners, ect. Read the studies and make sure you understand the results, then you should make your decision.
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Post by Skeptical One on Mar 16, 2011 23:33:37 GMT -5
Spaticus, do you have any links/sources that show Dr. Klein talking about why he does not like permanent fillers (other than the fact that they may be difficult to remove)? I've seen and read his site, and while he seems to be clearly against permanent fillers, he is okay with using temporary fillers (maximum 6 month) which of course means indefinite returns to his office for refills/touch-ups.
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